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Sunday, December 21. 2008Debian Quality and Releases
Sticking with the theme that blogs are all about completely biased and probably controversial opinion and not much else, I'm glad that Thomas has made his thoughts clear. Thomas - I fully agree (but your blog doesn't support comments, so I'm putting it here).
Debian, to me, needs to about Quality over quantity (being very aggressive over orphaned packages and their reverse dependencies) and about everyone working towards the releases. Not to pick arbitrary time-based deadlines for releases but actively fixing release-critical bugs, so that the release can proceed smoothly with stable, reliable packages. Debian developers who feel unable to fix release critical bugs maybe should not be developers any more - or at least be banned from mailing lists on lists.debian.org which appear to be the only "contribution" being made. There's no reason to continue using Gtk1.2 and no point in complaining about it because there is no prospect of anyone stepping up to maintain gtk1.2 itself. There is therefore no point in the long threads complaining about removing gtk1.2 because nobody is going to do any work to retain gtk1.2. If you aren't prepared to do the work, you should not feel you have any rights to complain about the lack of such work being done. We're all volunteers - don't expect someone else to sift the wheat from the chaff, get rid of your own cruft. Debian needs to be an association of people who do, not the current association of people who complain, moan and generally fight amongst themselves. The answer to this negativity is a can-do attitude - it is not as if there aren't enough problems out there to fix, get out there and raise the quality. (First though, get Lenny released.) Not everyone can do the same amount of workload but within the work that you are able to do, there must be a balance between the work you do for yourself and the work you do for the distribution. I'm not expecting people to have to match my levels of output, I am expecting people to match the proportion of time that they allocate to fixing problems outside their own limited niche. If that proportion approaches zero then maybe Debian doesn't need you any more. There is no reason to have project members who do not contribute to either quality or releases - that doesn't just mean not fixing bugs, it means not being a part of any team or other group in Debian that provides support for general quality or the release. If you aren't fussed about the quality of packages (in general, not just your own) and aren't willing to contribute just a small amount of your time to use your privileges to fix release-critical issues, then those privileges should be removed - you obviously don't need them. (Also, if you aren't a DD yet and you want sponsorship, these rules apply to you too. I won't sponsor people who have no feel for quality or want to help Debian make releases. I'm beginning to wish other sponsors would do the same. Quality is far more important than quantity - merely adding packages because they exist and because someone posts a request for a sponsor is insufficient. Completely insufficient, counter-productive too. See my sponsorship requirements.) Note: this post is entirely opinionated and I don't care if you disagree. I will take a particularly brutal approach to comments that do not grasp this fact. Trackbacks
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I agree that "this post is opinationated" and completely support your right to do it, and most since it is Your blog, but let me explain a thing.
I'm a Systems Manager but not a programmer. I care (a lot) about Debian being released soon and qualityfully, but I can not help with it, since I can not help fixing RC bugs (and I've tried). Now, it happens that I want to help Debian, and I've taken maintainership of a package that was orphaned and for which I felt I can afford to maintain. And I'm improving it. Am I guilty of placing myself in a "limited niche"? I think no. I just does not accept that I can be taken as guilty for trying to help to the best of my limited knowledge. And I do not agree with you in yor Requirement 9 for sponsorship. I want to use Debian, and I want to use the package I maintain in it, and I know other people wants to use it too. Would you expel me from the sponsoring process just because I do not want to be a Debian Developer? Why would I may want to be one if I am not a programmer at all? I would have shame of being a DD, because I think DDs are excellent people in their programming skills and I do not think myself on that level. Why would I have the same right to vote on Debian than yourself? But on the other side, why would Debian stop having the package I adopted if it is being correctly maintained? I follow debian-mentors@ and I see how many "my packages" are there, and how low the level is sometimes, and I agree that there are a lot of RFS there just for people wanting to say "I have a package in Debian", but you must think IMHO that there are people that wants to sincerely help but does not feel they can reach DD status.
You do not need to be a programmer to be a Debian Developer, no matter what else you may have read - what you need is the ability to understand and apply Policy. Besides, I'm sure you've done some shell scripting and maybe some perl within your current remit. It's complete bunkum that you cannot fix RC bugs - many RC bugs arise from how one package fails to fit into the rest of the system and the fix is in the packaging, not the upstream codebase. So your original point is redundant.
Adopting an orphaned package is a very useful thing to do, we need more people doing just that, so that's very welcome, thank you. During a release freeze, it will just be harder than usual to find a sponsor to upload the package unless there is an RC bug against the orphaned package. You aren't a "member" of Debian in the sense of my original blog post, you have no privileges to be removed, so the rest of your rant is pointless. With regard to sponsoring, "requirement 9" is my own - added partially so that people like you could be persuaded that they can actually join Debian. Oher sponsors do not have such a requirement. (I still think you are wrong that you do not feel you could join Debian but then there are machinations within Debian to create categories of membership where you might be happy.) However, you are (currently) in a completely isolated niche - a niche you have built all for yourself and which (by the looks of it) you would fiercely protect. Joining Debian would allow you to continue with your first package and help with other areas - maybe translation or documentation but will require you to leave your comfort zone. Maybe that is why you are frightened of joining. There are some people, such as yourself, who believe that they aren't capable of joining Debian for whatever reason and I think all those people are probably wrong because they have a distorted view that Debian Developers are all programmers, adept in every possible language. You can see from my own sponsorship pages that I won't touch certain languages. Debian Developers have areas of expertise, yours could be system admin - there are a lot of DD's like that already. That in no way stops you from fixing RC bugs that arise from or in packages that a sys admin would be required to know and use. I'm quite sure you've fixed a few critical issues in your sys admin role. All that needs to be done with RC bugs is that the fix is "packaged" as an update. Finally, the post was directed firmly at existing Debian Developers, not maintainers requiring sponsorship. I don't need you to explain things to me, I'm quite aware of what is involved. If you are prone to such knee-jerk reactions and writing replies that have no actual bearing on the issue and raise completely unrelated points, maybe Debian doesn't need you after all. What is needed for you to join Debian is not a change in your skill profile to include programming but a change in your personality profile to include avoiding knee-jerk reactions and tangential discussions.
I'm aware of that there is no need to be a programmer to become a Debian member, and I have some friends who are that have said me to apply and join. It is from the point of view of somebody who is being asked to join from whic I initially readed your post, so even when it does not apply to me right now it can apply in the future.
And no, I do not "defend fiercely" my niche, I just know that I can be helpful in it and not in others. I would be happy if better hands get the package I maintain (BTW it is wmaker-data which is all images so there is no programming _at all_ involved). I would be as happy helping in any other area I can afford. Finally, I'm sorry in posting all this in your blog (which as long as I care is like your home in which I'm a guest) but if I've putted it in my own you surely would not readed it.
Hey, Noel.
Thanks for working on Debian. Regarding not being able to help with RC bugs: Anyone should be able to come up with a patch for, say, http://bugs.debian.org/508434 For bonus points, take down all daemons matching .pid[0-9]*, but be sure it also works when no daemon is running. Kind regards T. (apologies for abusing the mail field) |
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